HBN: HomeBrew Network

[Vincent]

This is an idea, and I wanted to see what everyone thought about it. I don't plan on doing anything with his idea, but you never know maybe a team of us could do this. I just wanted this idea in writing...

Well, I was thinking, what if we, the homebrewers, made our own XBox Live-like network? We could call it the PlayStationNetwork (original, huh, but it will confuse Sony), or PSN for short. Kosmodrones inspired me. Now, the PS3 and XBox/360 systems have their networking platforms integrated into their dashboards.

This networking platform will allow people to have access to the homebrew community on their PSPs. Another cool thing is if some one is generous enough, we could get a server that could hold a repository for all submitted homebrew releases. These homebrew releases can be publicized by PSN newsposters, and peope can download the homebrew applications straight from these repositories to their PSP's. That way, they could download the lastest of any homebrew and play it right there without need of a PC. People can check out their gamer stats as well as their own by game. There can be a Hall of Fame section for each homebew game participating with the PSN.

We homebrewers can't do this directly through the XMB unless we create a custom firmware to handle this on the PSP. DAX (or Fanija comes out of retirement) would probably have to help us there, but we could also just make a homebrew app to handle this. However, just like the XBox, you can log into your accounts in two ways: through the console dashboard/application, and through a homebrew game itself.

Now, when there are more open-source engines out there, and game development and networking becomes something bigger and better to do, we could create a standardized SDK or maybe just a standardized .prx that homebrew developers will use to allow their games/application interact with the PSN. This will be responsible for relaying information in online games and application on PSP that will interact with the players' accounts PSN. Pretty much all the networking code for networked games will be however the developers want them. Then, developers can create their own achievements, ranks, high-scorers table, etc from the game. If the players perform some sort of game-specific achievement of some sort, PSN prx can keep track of that for the homebrew developer, and record into the PSN server's database for that game. The prx will pretty much allow the homebrewer communicate with their custom, game proprietary database. That way, none of this data is stored on the players' PSP. That would eliminate the players' desire to tamper with their profile.

There can be plenty of other possibilities here, but I'm just throwing it out there. I think it would be cool, and help increase development. If anything, I'll definitely build some sort of model of how this will all work, and include it in my engine if I get around to it!

[gibbocool]

Very interesting idea

[A_Nub]

Sounds like a very very big project. But If people are willing to do this i might help.

[Flatmush]

It's not that bigger project, with lib curl and some php server side script you could get it working within a day and you could even take advantage of some free host to host the files for you if you're really cheeky.
I used to do stuff like this in vb, I might post a poc of this working later.
To get this to work well you'd have to get in contact with fanjita so that it could be linked into the homebrew database, I do remember someone starting on this but I dunno if it ever got finished.

[RZX15]

Intresting...

[PSPdude101]

o.o O.o 


man that seems so cool i would help but i'm only a newb.

[pspcoder]

Hi ive been thinkinh about what you posted and i would be very easy to implement. All we need is a mysql server and some hosting. we send request from the homebrew app and split the return url so that we can get information back.

what we could do with this is have a gamercard for users. storing a list in the mysql database all this will be shown in the homebrew. we could have gamerscores for homebrew if we leave the code open ended through apis. I am willing to jump on board this if anyone wants to start a team it isnt that hard libcurl as said above deals with http requestes. we could even have a irc chat and messaging in it a sort of psp live.

pspcoder.

[Vincent]

psp live

That sounds hella cool! Yeah, if you are willing to do this, that would be cool. flatmush also said he would help too. The problem is that I have no idea on where to go with this as far as the networking goes. I wanted to get a few people together to fully design how it works. Then, I would do some client-end programming that would work with a little network programming. This may be a noobish question on the networking part, but would we need a URL? I would only think we would need a web-based IP address that would be supplied by out server provider and the server's ISP. flatmush suggests that one of us holds the server, and we both agree that this should be a community effort. Raphael also encourages his triEngine to be a community effort. I was thinking that we could join forces and have the PSN, or pspLive (whichever we call it) working with Raph's triEngine. I think that would be a good idea, but I still haven't had the time to go through his code, and there's a lot of base-code I wanted to add in that developers could use as quick code that could easily be changed around for their games' needs.

PM me on your ideas, and we'll talk more about it. I haven't been working on it lately because I have been busy and I live halfway across the world from many of the people I talk to. I live in the States. The odds of me being on when my other contacts are on are very slim do to the time zone differences and all our schedules. I'd really like to release something cool. If we can, we should setup a Writely document, and collaborate on it, or Google Docs via gmail will work for me too. It's all about what will work for you guys!

[pspcoder]

The best way to do it as i see is by using the url. we can use any free webhost or we can host our own it doesnt make any different. all we are intrested in if we go down the route that i suggest is anything after the .html? we would use seperate php pages to:
a) Log into our system.
b) Retrieve information from the system.

there would be login.php that accepts urls to authenticate login attempts this would look like this www.freewebhosts.co.uk?user=someuser&password=somepassword

this php page would then pass another argument back which we could catch on the return url through the post data.

the next page once logged in would then pass us the rest of the data such as user name, homebrew score gamer picture. freinds list whatever we want realy. this again will all be passed through the url so it would be like www....php?username=""&password=""&gamerscore=""&...

you get what i mean.

What we need is a layout of what we want displaying, what content we want to be made available e.g. downloads chat freinds list's.

if we want to go down the 360 route of blades or invent a new system of tabs. using the triEngine would be gould for the graphic side of things yet for a application my personal feeling is that it is slighlty overkill we could just use images and text but thats a decision tha needs to be made.

What we do need is a webhost, any will do as long as there is a mysql database and php. (4 or 5 either is cool with me) A subversion server or a trac management system setup. so that if there are several of us working away we know what is going on.

So position wise we need.

Programmers.
-User interface
-psp - webserver programmer
-php programmer

Designers.

so if you just post back with what you feel about this and your strengths for this project we wil get started. i can program the php and the psp side of things yet my graphics ability leaves much to be desired. It would be ace if we could have this ready for beta testing for new year but that may be pushing things.

future ideas to this could be prx plugin to the xmd to load the system from a button combination or even replace the xmb semi.

pspcoder/

[BadBoy_]

hm...maybe i can help with the PHP side thingy
and i'm not to bad at site design, so i can help there too

[pspcoder]

excelent, what level of php are you at? what experience etc.

also whats the best way to communicate with you msn aim etc...

pspcoder.

[Raphael]

this php page would then pass another argument back which we could catch on the return url through the post data.

the next page once logged in would then pass us the rest of the data such as user name, homebrew score gamer picture. freinds list whatever we want realy. this again will all be passed through the url so it would be like www....php?username=""&password=""&gamerscore=""&...

you get what i mean.

Not quite. I don't understand what you think of "return url". A php page returns a stream of data that most of the time is a generated html page. It can be anything though.

Here's how I'd imagine it:
PSP program start/enter password -> access "http://X/login.php?Id=MAC&password=XyZ" (or username=AbC to not bind the login to a specific PSP) -> return "true"/"false" depending on whether user exists in DB -> PSP accesses http://X/getdata.php?Id=MAC&password=XyZ&data=scores (or data=userimg or whatever) -> page returns the data from the DB.
That would at least be a POC system. I wouldn't really suggest that system of transmitting the password in plain text through an unsecure connection for a running system.

if we want to go down the 360 route of blades or invent a new system of tabs. using the triEngine would be gould for the graphic side of things yet for a application my personal feeling is that it is slighlty overkill we could just use images and text but thats a decision tha needs to be made.

I'm with you there. triEngine was designed for game programming, not application programming. It's a bit of overhead indeed. Still the net code could be used as a base for the PSP->SERVER connection.

[gibbocool]

I'm sure nathan could hook us up with hosting.

And yes as Raph said, an http request returns the web page, not a url.

[Vincent]

Quote
if we want to go down the 360 route of blades or invent a new system of tabs. using the triEngine would be gould for the graphic side of things yet for a application my personal feeling is that it is slighlty overkill we could just use images and text but thats a decision tha needs to be made.

I'm with you there. triEngine was designed for game programming, not application programming. It's a bit of overhead indeed. Still the net code could be used as a base for the PSP->SERVER connection.

Yeah, that's what I was going for. The networking part of the code in the triEngine, and we could use parts like the sprite rendering code from it. It runs really fast, so why not use it? As long as you only include the file you need for the project, you'll be safe as far as generating a HUGE executable.

I've got some good code that would do the job though. I can handle the graphics programming end. It would be cool to recruit some graphics artists. I always visioned the PSN as an application built into the firmware (only if possible, and not too big of a deal) just like the PlayStation Store is on the PS3. I can see that being difficult to accomplish though. It would be a browser-like application. only it won't require a mouse-like cursor like the PSP web browser though. It will all be menu-based with the directional pad choosing between the buttons/controls.

Anyway, I really want to get something out there by New Years too. That would be awesome for the community. The first thing we should do is all get together on irc or group up on msn/aim/other. We would discuss the design of how the PSN will work.

We should discuss the following:
-How PSN/ will be related/applied to the homebrew games using the it
-How the PSN will exist (as an application built into the firmware, an application, web-based, etc.)
-What features will be in it
-How we issue accounts to homebrew developers that will use the PSN for their projects (one account per project)
-Where to host the server (gibbocool mentioned talking to Nathan; I was thinking along those lines from day1 )
-Talk to flatmush: he was thinking about writing a special protocol for the PSP to work with the PSN.
-What the PSN's features will be (I've got a few lined up)
-How the PSN's features will work
-How the PSN's features will be displayed
-How the PSN's layout will be (I'm thinking icon-based)
-What will be the PSN's realy name (I was thinking PSPLive at the beginning, but I want it to be original; kinda like the prototype name "PSN" lol )

The list goes on, but if we can get a solid idea on what to expect from this project, then we can setup a goal of what to expect by New Years, and that will allow us to move forward. I say we setup a Writely account of a Google Docs account to help communicate on the design of the PSN.

Also, my msn is: mechanic2008@hotmail.com

[pspcoder]

Hi vincent ive added to you msn. my hotmail is djjc147@hotmail.com.

If the group fels that the engine is the best way to go then that is cool with me. I tihnk for the web pased side instead of having a online portal which you can view on the internet we sould use xml. this way we can parse then resulting pages on the psp and display the information. what do you all think. we could in time then move this system to a online based version as well using xsl templating.

pspcoder./